Had my first with 14, did not know that there still are today. I'm here more by chance found the Order of Wrangler jeans and I even indulged. Need with 190cm and 55cm wide shoulders Gr. 54, comes with XL good back, sits slightly form-fitting but schlabberig I wanted the Joppa also not throw even like my habit biker bar. For guys my size XL with Plauze however would be too tight. Quality fit and appearance of the washing appears to have not changed in all these years, just good as before. The price here on Amazon once again very favorable.